vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
109300-you-promised-hard-core-you-actually-delivered-tedium
Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- ---- What? Sure, it's boring. But I got silver on my first ever pug, having no clue what to even do. And we only missed gold because no one knew mobs can randomly attack the caravan directly and one settler got ganked. Attunement might be tedious, but adventures are not its problematic component. | |} ---- ---- Congrats, you've learned the true definition of an MMO! Side note: "never ending" treadmill seems redundant... are there "ending" treadmills? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Obligatory reply: Enjoy your dead game when too many people have left, like you told them to... :rolleyes: | |} ---- Toning down the Silver medals to Bronze medals will go a long way for attunement. Or at least I hope it will. | |} ---- I would rather see this game dead than have raiding turned into LFR. | |} ---- ---- Well I wouldn't, but I'm of course not surprised to see the "hardcore" crowd display their absolute selfishness once more. | |} ---- ... | |} ---- Well, you're probably going to get your wish. Won't you feel good about yourself when not even you uber-leets can play? All because you're so important, you couldn't see fit to share. Ah. Everything that's wrong with humanity today. Well done. You're part of the problem. | |} ---- ---- ---- Way to miss the point. Attunement isn't hard, getting silver is pretty damn easy. If you had any reading skills you'd know that my point was that the whole damn attunement process isn't hard, 'cause, you know, that's what the title says... It's running the same damn zillion step attunement process over and over and over and over and over again because very few guilds can ever keep 20 of the exact same people raiding on a consistent basis, membership changes constantly. Not hard, tedious. | |} ---- Cause Eve is anything like this game? No, I want hardcore WoW back as this game was promised to be. So how about you go and play Hello Kitty! Island Adventure since it seems all you want is a King MMO. | |} ---- So go play EVE and leave the MMOs to the people who want to be social and game. Aren't you gone yet? | |} ---- ---- i can gold malgrave trail in my sleep and i would do a lot worse than shoot the guy responsible for that hole. | |} ---- Seems all you want is a game with five whole players left in it. So why don't you go play Golf? Seems like all you want is to lord your skills over the three other people who actually care about your opinion. So, go do that. No one is going to miss you here, I promise. PROMISE. | |} ---- I'm not demanding anything but a healthy population. I'll adapt to whatever* changes that requires of Wildstar. If even harder raids are what it takes to get more people, fine with me. They would probably be beyond my abilities, but I would prefer it to the game shutting down. As I said, your attitude is simply selfish. But I don't expect you to understand. I've been through this argument with too many of your kind. *up to a certain degree | |} ---- Lol, the raiding isn't hard, but that's only said in the title of the post, so I shouldn't expect you to actually get that. Actually getting to the point of raiding isn't hard, but that's only in the body of the post so I shouldn't expect you to actually get that. Attunement is tedious, and after you've done it for the 50th time for your next newest guild member, dead brained boring. But then that is also in the post so I shouldn't expect you to have gotten that either. | |} ---- And that is the difference between you and me, we have different "degrees" that we are willing to let this game change. You want a Mists of Pandaria WoW Clone, I want a Vanilla/TBC WoW Clone. You want more people at the sake of game vision, I want game vision at the sake of people. The difference is, you don't need 11 million people to have a successful MMO. Weird, in my guild, we required people to be on the Silver Dungeons part of attunement because you can PUG the adventures and get Gold. Also, why would you be the only member of your guild helping members get attuned? Sounds like you have a problem of having too many selfish people in your guild. | |} ---- ---- This is what happens, when something difficult gets nerfed, the whiners focus on other things. You just said it yourself, you are okay with this game getting easier. I am not. Why is it so hard to want an MMO like this that actually has some modicum of difficulty to it? Why do people that you support always have to come and demand loot pinatas? | |} ---- ---- When one lacks all reason, one does what one must. | |} ---- I just said I don't care if it gets easier or harder, but oh well. Absolute tunnel vision on "DON'T NERF MY GAME" is another typical trait of your type. No point in further arguing, you'll just keep incorrectly repeating that I want the game nerfed, welfare everything, etc. You'll never listen to reason. | |} ---- LOL, yeah. Because not wanting Wildstar to become Hello Kitty! Island Adventure is without reason. | |} ---- If it means sending the grindcores back to EVE or wherever, bring on Sanrio. | |} ---- Let me guess, if King came out with an MMO, you would jump ship immediately to it? | |} ---- Weird, I never said I was the only one, sounds like you have a problem reading. Admitting only folks that have reached the silver dungeon attunement step doesn't solve the problem of having to run silver dungeons over and over again as guild membership turns over. As I said, that isn't hard core, it's tedious. They promised hard core, but before you can get your 20 there you gotta run the hamster wheel endlessly. And as the numbers show, barely anyone is actually raiding. | |} ---- What a fantastic game this would have been without that mentality, huh? Can you imagine? My Lord above, what a fantastic experience we'd be having right now if they'd've left the Hardcores on the docks. *wistful sigh* | |} ---- So you personally ran 50 people through attunement...yet aren't the only one to do it in your guild? You have a problem holding people on in your guild then. First, I would solve that problem. | |} ---- All King has to do is slap the 'hardcore' title on their MMO and you'll be all over that grind like white on rice. | |} ---- This argument is so tired... If LFR is faceroll DON'T DO IT. Comparing Wildstar raiding to WoW LFR is just stupid. If you're going to compare the hardest content in WS to WoW then you need to compare it to 25 man heroic mode. WS raiding isn't this OMGWTF innovative new hard raiding. It's hard don't get me wrong but just as hard as WoW heroic modes. The world first system daemons guild in WS has people who haven't even done WoW heroic modes in it. That says a lot for it's difficulty. I'm not trying to knock WS raiding difficulty. I only did GA in beta when there wasn't an attunement. I'm just curious if a real hardcore WoW heroic mode raiding guild came to WS how fast they'd dismantle GA and Datascape. We got Engima and Death and Taxes... (Death and Taxes who stopped being relevant in WoW raid progression in about 2006-08.) | |} ---- ---- They already addressed the attunement issue, however, if you're struggling with Malgrave trail, their solution won't resolve your problem. I don't think I've been in a pug that hasn't gotten at least Silver (usually PUGs pretty easily attain gold on all adventures), so I am not sure what the problem is. If you claim it's because you're helping out guild members, maybe you should try running it with guild members? The attunement in it's current state isn't even that bad. The most difficult thing is getting people to get silver on vet dungeons, and then there is the time consuming process hunting down the world bosses, but those can be done in less than 5 hours. | |} ---- ---- The difference is, no. I mean, if they actually put stuff in place to make their game hardcore like Carbine did with Wildstar. But they don't do that, their business model is placating people like you. | |} ---- The game isn't really that difficult though. A lot of the raid boss mechanics and encounters I've come across so far are a lot more tedious than hard. | |} ---- We are all basking in the presence of your mind-reading abilities. | |} ---- The stupid cows move extremely slowly and the distances between the interesting choices/stops are huge. It's just too much bland filler. :P I actually like the concept. | |} ---- Maybe for you, but obviously not for the people who complain about silver adventures. | |} ---- Hmmm... I see both sides, really. I mean, I wouldn't want WildStar to be "dead," but I would definitely prefer that it have fewer players if that's what it takes to remain true to itself. After all, no matter how tedious this game may seem to some, it's nowhere near the level of grind and time committment required by games "back in the day." Many of us miss those games for one reason or another, and joined WildStar because we're sick of the easymode games that the industry is now almost entirely consistent of. To that end, I'd be fine with WildStar not having millions of players, because it wouldn't have to cater to all of them. Does that make me selfish? If so, then everyone else is selfish, too, because everyone simply wants to play the kind of game they enjoy. On the other hand, if there isn't at least some bare minimum of players, the MMO becomes pointless. I'm confident WildStar will retain the numbers it needs, though, especially as more patches are released. | |} ---- Weird, never said I personally ran 50 people through attunement, can you read? Also, they don't just leave our guild, they leave the game. Can't do much about that except maybe make a forum post hoping Carbine will change things so they don't. | |} ---- I see how people can think that, but are we going for max freak out twitch action every single second we're in game or are some instances that are slower, more paced and include gathering, choices and multiple pathways as an option, a choice that should be considered? I haven't been 50 for long, but aren't there more loot tables, more bosses? Isn't more variety than typical dungeon design better? | |} ---- As you've amply demonstrated, your reading comprehension skills are at second grade level, maybe. So, I'll put it in all caps and dumb it down even further for the developmentally challenged: GETTING SILVER IN ADVENTURES ISN'T HARD, HARD CORE, OR DIFFICULT. IT'S TEDIOUS. THE GUY WHO DESIGNED MALGRAVE TRAIL SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT AND SHOT NOT BECAUSE IT'S HARD BUT BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE MOST BORING,TIME WASTING 'DUNGEON'S EVER DESIGNED IN AN MMO. Somehow I think you will still completely miss the point. | |} ---- ---- But that's the thing, no one's really complaining about silver adventures. Somebody misread something and it's been blown it way out of proportion. Even at a raid level, the boss mechanics aren't really hard on an individual basis. The reason the fights are "hard" is because there is zero room for mistakes. With no battle rez and many of the red zones 1 shotting you each player has a higher level of responsibility than in most MMOs and most clears end up being perfect runs or very very close. If you drop those 3-4 key players it's over, there's no recovery, time to start over. Meanwhile, in other MMO's you can have those 3-4 key players make a mistake and get them back up and still go on to clear. There's just zero breathing room in this game where raiding is concerned and while some people might enjoy that and find it fun, I'm well past the point where that's for me. If that's for you still, then that's great. Glad you're enjoying the current state of the game. | |} ---- 1) Loot tables are not the game's strong point from any perspective. <_< 2) Well as I said, I like the concept of M.Trail. I just think it's too drawn out. If the cows moved at twice the speed, we would still have "relaxed" periods, but the whole thing wouldn't take quite as long. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Share what?!? It is a freaking video game developed by someone. If you like it, play it. If you do not like it, don't play. The sense of entitlement is ridiculous. Every single game doesn't have to be made for you. As for the OP, if you are an MMO vet you would know that repetition is common. There is no game over screen. You clear content, rinse, repeat. You can farm gear, make alts, work on crafting, collect housing decor, finish achievements, switch specs. Don't like those things? Than you should play a single player game, not an MMO. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- You know, that would make nice non-combat attunement requirements: Collect X datacubes, complete X TALES issues, hug X lopp, endorse all products in that shiphand mission, slap Priestess Severina X times, etc... | |} ---- Ok, I giggled. LOL In all seriousness, though, tedium is part of MMOs. Until we have some ground-breaking, awe-inspiring new way of doing things, MMOs will be tedious. Some of us don't mind it; taking awhile to complete things makes it feel better when we complete them (again, only for some of us). | |} ---- I do agree with that part of your comment. LFR is also for the people who will not see the end content otherwise. For the rest insulting people that are insulting other people don't make you a better person. Plus your comment will probably get deleted including the part i like. | |} ---- What is the 20,000 items you have to pick up? Because as much as I want to agree and think it could apply to rep, (which is in general helping your main faction and thus okay IMO) I think you're just writing a sentence that exaggerates the attunement's requirements. A lengthy attunement is better than a short attunement. That is my argument. | |} ---- ---- This. PvP was a huge thing in WoW when it first was received, which balanced a lot of the player base from PvE. Once a few of this main issues get resolved, what are we left with? An amazing game? | |} ---- I know. I know. *takes a bow* You're pretty dang amazing yourself! | |} ---- ---- ---- We got 15 + people attuned from dungeons onward in less than a week and are now raiding. Tell your leaders, who apparently have no idea what they're doing, to organize attunement on raid nights and get it done. | |} ---- ---- ---- Oh hey not surprised you're here. Guess what 4/4 silver attuned- casual. The game's already casual core :P | |} ---- I apologize. When you said "Attunement is tedious, and after you've done it for the 50th time for your next newest guild member, dead brained boring." I assumed you were talking from experience. I will not make that same mistake again and I will no longer assume you are speaking from experience. You mean people wouldn't want something to exist in the way it was promised? Weird. Should Old Yeller been allowed to stay alive at the end too? I mean, he was a bit different at that point, but now nobody gets to enjoy his company. First off, it's an adventure. Second, you have no idea what Tedious is. Tedious, would be having to run an adventure 200 times for a sword to drop that you need to be able to raid. That would be tedious. Daily quests are tedious but thank goodness they aren't necessary for anything. Having to run an adventure once, twice if really unlucky, is not tedious. Also, calling on people to get killed because you don't like their video game that they made is very bad. No, he is literally complaining about silver adventures. Well, there are really two types of casuals. There are the bad ones who complain about stuff everything, and there are the good ones who are skilled and actually use their time productively. You seem to be closer to the latter. I firmly believe you can do every part of this game on a casual level, it's just that you can't be bad. BadCasual-core doesn't have the same ring to it though. | |} ---- I like this. I agree. I sincerely hope the game finds it's stride and the hemorrhaging subs taper off soon. Some of the zones on my servers has been awfully desolate as of late as well. But if it's any consolation I recall certain wow zones being pretty empty even at it's heydey such as Desolace, Thousand Needles, etc and that was on a high pop server (inb4 "well wow has 10x's as many zones so poo poo on you") | |} ---- But I thought earlier a few weeks ago you were calling me and my guild bad players :P | |} ---- If you can do silver dungeons, you aren't too bad. But I still disagree with you that nerfing something in the game because the bad players refused to rise to the occasion is the way to go. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Except WS wasn't billed that way either. Go check out their "#hardcore" raiding video, and you'll see epic bosses, giant red circles of doom, people dodging telegraphs. That kind of thing. Nowhere in the #hardcore advertising is a video of someone endlessly following kurgs at a snail's pace because their raid team had real life obligations or realized they hate their class or any number of other reasons why a guild might need to recruit someone new. | |} ---- Yea, but its supposed to be Time consuming because of the challenge. No time consuming because it's easy and needs to be done 1000 times. | |} ---- ---- In the vast majority of mmo's I can think of the time aspect was part of the challenge. EQ, FFXI, Ultima, WAR, RO, D2, etc etc etc ad nauseam. Hard content that isn't within a time consuming context is called MOBA / FPS. RPG's by definition are set in an intrinsically time consuming context, that doesn't disappear for MMORPGS. | |} ---- ---- ---- You missed the point of my post. The issue isn't that it's hard but that it is boring. Difficulty has nothing to do with boring. Making attunement bronze doesn't make it more compelling. It will make no difference in the long run if the content isn't compelling to enough people. | |} ---- Do people really have trouble with the rep grind? I had ~30,000 rep upon hitting 50.... I guess folks just skip quests or something? | |} ---- I think I need to be in Blazing Saddles | |} ---- how about ppl that lvled with pvp? they are from a separated dimension of play so they should NEVER see a raid or high end PVE. PVE != PVP = HARDCORE | |} ---- ---- I wonder how long until people start saying, "What? We have to kill this raid boss again this week? Why can't it just fall over and give us the loot? We already have proven that we can kill it. This is TEDIOUS Carbine, not HARDCORE! Fix it!" | |} ---- I PvP while I leveled, I also did all the quests.... Are the two now mutually exclusive? | |} ---- You guys running out of straw yet? How is this the only counterargument that seems to exist? "I like playing Wildstar, but as soon as you break 50 any meaningful progress changes from a fun ride to trying to kick a dead whale down the beach. The drops are terrible when you even get them, and the 'Big Goal' such a relentless grind that it's a funnel into a leaky bowl - only a few people make it, and seemingly not fast enough to refill the tank of raiders. Some reduction of tedium for the sake of tedium-gating, and the addition of a side road of content for people not on the Attunement Trail, would go a long way." "omfg scrub l2p or gb2WoW, bosses too hard for you, casuals gtfo mah hardcore" Is defense just a reflex, so it doesn't need to be relevant to the claim you're opposing? | |} ---- in absolute 100% honestly Frigg, a lot of us actually like the time sink. That may sound wierd, but its actually one of the make or break characteristics of an MMO for me. If there isn't content that is going to be both challenging and a lengthy process to obtain or complete, I'm honestly not interested. I 100% agree there should be some more varied progression and expanded rewards (expanded mostly in extent, but also depth), but If W* got rid of it's carrots that are both a difficult challenge AND very time consuming... I honestly would probably leave for something else. I don't think it's defense of Carbine per-see, but defense of a mechanic that many of us actually enjoy at it's core. Obviously YMMV. | |} ---- ---- Well, you did at least mention what you like and why you like it. Which is a mile and a half better than a completely irrelevant to the argument "get good". No amount of practice and dedication will overcome an RNG, and when people complain about the latter being layered eight deep complaining they need more of the former is ridiculous. And I appreciate that, for whatever reason, you want to bury hours into the game to get anything out of it. While I can respect that, objectively... it's a dying form. We're all getting busier, culture in general and the aging gamer population in particular. The genre has moved a great deal in the intervening time - I'll decline to call it 'forward' or not for the sake of conversation - and the field is almost embarrassingly full of options. "How it was done" just doesn't hold up any more; it's gotta put butts in queues. And "work very hard, over and over again, for the chance that maybe you'll break even" just won't these days. Lament it or not, if they're dedicated to a time sink heavy model, costs are gonna have to go up to keep the lights on - or the time sink will hit F2P, P2W, Asian grinder levels. Gamers, generally speaking, want their playtime to directly correlate to overall success and gain. I'm not saying purples should fall from the sky as daily login rewards, just to head off that absolute nonsense, but if I run content that's harder than my daily Weaponsmith quest, I would like something better than that quest gives me, you know? And I don't feel like I'm alone. The question is if Carbine can put enough into the game to please both of us before they pull the plug on subscription model, or even the servers. | |} ---- ---- So, basically, what your'e saying is "logical fallacy therefore I'm right". Good going. What you and your guild leaders have done is drawn a conclusion based on poor logic and completely ignored your actual problem (which is losing people). I know you and a whole bunch of other stupids are going to argue with me here, so before you do that, ask yourself this: would you have posted this if you were raiding and had never lost anyone because you have not had to re-attune anyone? I'd argue no. So, the problem you need to solve is retention. Why are people leaving the game or your guild? Is it really, as you would have us believe, because after doing each adventure once and each dungeon once they go 'omg this is so tedious'? I doubt it quite highly. My guess is you're either having to run them a whole bunch over and over because you're failing OR you keep losing people for another reason entirely that you haven't identified properly. My point is not that you don't have a right to consider the attunement process tedious - you can, that's your opinion and I'm not arguing that. If you really believe that, go right ahead. What I'm saying is, you're targeting the wrong thing for your complaint. Your complaint is actually about people leaving the game, and I really doubt it's because attunement is tedious. There's another reason and it ain't that. | |} ---- ---- Content locusts who pick an MMO and play it as their only active game, chasing every bit of fresh content the moment it becomes available and only until they beat it once, logging in day after day to complete there's nothing to do, have really only themselves to blame. Making end-game MMO content takes orders of magnitude more time than playing through it does - they'll never get so far behind they're always occupied. Play another game! Get another hobby! Try an element of the game you've never played! Offer or barter for helping groups through dungeon runs to improve the overall server community! But "I made myself bored, make everything longer!" just means those people with more limited time available to them never see anything and stop paying for it. And maybe the content locusts are happy with that. But they don't decide if the servers stay up. Loosen the grip and find a middle ground, or squeeze the life out of it... we've all got a call to make. | |} ---- ---- Couldn't agree more, but finding a middle ground is the hard part. The problem with 'hardcore' elitist gamers is this: they want their game hardcore enough that them completing it means few others can, but the minute you try to find a middle ground by say, leaving them to their hardcore stuff and adding in easier stuff for the others, the reality is, their dumb as dog shit and start doing in the easy stuff and complaining everything got nerfed. The worst kind of hardcore elitists want to be the only ones and no one else, which means they give no ground and can't compromise. Ever. At all. It's their way or the high way and screw all the bads that can't compete (yes, compete, because that's what it is to them). Then, at the other extreme, you have people who are just unable to skill up and/or can't play enough to and they decide that because there's content they'll never see, stuff should be added just for them because they're special and their money (and only their money, cuz there's so many more of them you know) keeps the game alive and without them we're all doomed, so we better well cater to them or they're going to take their bat and ball and go somewhere else and screw this game. They're are as bad as each other, just at different ends of the spectrum. The only worthwhile discussion you'll get toward finding a middle ground is if the hardcore elitists get to keep measuring their epeen in such a way that they feel worthwhile (they generally have self-esteem issues) and the bads who can't play often or don't care to get better because it's a game and everything should be easy get to feel they get as good stuff as everyone else. *scratches head* I don't see a way to do that? | |} ---- ---- Sigh, commitment is another way of saying grind. What exactly is it about doing the same, ridiculously easy dailies that you would put such emphasis on them as to say without doing the same monotonous daily tasks someone has "no business" raiding? Dailies are for money and Elder Gems. No more, no less. I flip on Netflix and let Neil DeGrasse Tyson educate me on the Cosmos while I mindlessly kill the same enemies day in and day out. I guess you consider this work? Hit 50, pay someone to craft some gear for you and you are geared enough for raids. Attunement is a time sink just like Veteran Levels in ESO, albeit not quite as ridiculous. Carbine isn't trying to teach us anything. They just implemented the same strategy most other MMO's have. The drops you get aren't anything great, the experience doesn't matter you've already been doing quests for 50 lvls, you should understand your power set by now. I see no reason you would consider yourself more qualified to run a Raid simply because you have completed a few dailies. | |} ---- To be fair, 'tedium' aka time investment, is a major component of the 'Hardcore'. I know some folks really do not like that, but a game isn't hardcore on difficulty alone; it's hardcore because of a mix of high difficulty and high time investment. I can't think of a single MMO that hasn't required time invesemtnes, however all of the ones generally considered to be 'Hardcore' have had both higher difficulty AND higher time investment. Its fine to dislike that, and to not like the nature of 'Hardcore' in it's inclusion of higher time investment. But some people genuinely enjoy that, | |} ---- ---- But that's the point I was making earlier, the OP just doesn't understand what his argument is well enough and has used the word 'tedious' when in fact that isn't the problem at all. Attunement isn't tedious. People are making that argument without actually thinking about what they're saying. If you do each step once and only once there's 13 steps. Big whoop. The problem they're all conveniently disguising (and I call it how I see it cuz the bullshit excuses used by people in this thread are rubbish) is 1) they're having to help multiple people do it, so there's an entirely different problem, or 2) they're wiping and failing alot. I mean seriously, argue the right thing. If you really think attunement (13 steps) is tedious, go for that argument in the right way and talk about the actual steps, each of which is NOT a significant time investment if done once and detail *that* out, but don't say it's tedious when you actually mean something entirely different. | |} ---- First, and most importantly, we need to knock off this hardcore/casual bullshit. That's a meaningless distinction and is nothing but advertisement jargon, used in turns, to get people to play your game. But there are answers. First, there's the idea of a "soft cap" on game currencies that are used to buy things. Take elder gems buying gear to fill slots the RNG gods deemed you unfit to wear just as an example (one Carbine hopefully implements, and one I've written a lot about). Instead of a hard cap, which encourages you to only play to a point, or removing the cap, which instantly favors people who put in a lot of time in direct proportion to time played, you can use a soft cap. In other words, as you gather elder gems, they occur less and less frequently, thereby meaning that putting in double the playtime gives you more gems (which is fair) but not double the gems (which would be a game breaker). To get people to fan out and try other things, you can spread that cap space among other things in a given week. Maybe there are bonus gems you get from vet dungeons, some you get from vet adventures, some you get from world bosses, etc. Give people a reason to be working all manner of content. There are ways to do these things, but we have to kind of step back from this dichotomy calling out who this game is made for. We're all special little snowflakes; we've all got our own times we can play. Having 50 hours a week to play means a lot less if you play all five weekdays from 9a-5p. Having 25 hours to play is a lot different if 16 of them are on friday and saturday evenings and nights. Carbine shouldn't patronize us by giving us "easier" content because we can't do it, but there's no shame in adding things in that are quicker but just as nasty. I did bring up an idea, once, to put together an arena that randomly sends two mob waves and a random miniboss from any dungeon or the open world, then repeats that, then sends two more mob waves and a dungeon or open world full boss. Completely random, completely puggable, completely quick. Not necessarily easy, but awarded less because it takes less time. Yet still something you can technically do in 15-20 minutes because you don't have a choice (you have to be ready for the next wave ASAP). I also may have suggested we could add platforming or puzzle challenges in the original text (wherever it is), but the mobs are the important part. It's something quick and dirty to do on off-raid and guild-event nights. | |} ---- Everything you have posted has something to do with someone saying this game is hard... Nowhere in the OP did he say it was hard. He actually stated quite a few times that the game was NOT HARDCORE but TEDIOUS. WoW came out how long ago? There is no "cool, somewhat mysterious npc route" in this game. It's *cupcake*ing dailies dude. There is a good reason to gate content I agree. The reason is good for the Dev's tho. Gives them a time sink to use as a buffer for how soon they will need to drop new raids. Umm... senseless combat is exactly what Dailies are... if you're paying attention while doing dailies... ... ... | |} ---- ---- Hahah wow I missed this the first time. I'm not one to believe in forum plants, but if Activision were paying me to disrupt the Wildstar community on their forums, and let me decide how to do it... this is exactly the tack I'd take. Longer, perhaps. A bit more in-depth. But sticking to the central theme of presenting Wildstar's dedicated, long-haul, "hardcore" player base as aggressively toxic while intimating WoW would be happy to take in anybody not yelling "Yeah, brosef REKT that scrub!" at their monitor when they saw that. | |} ---- Really? In one I'm smashing my face against the 'gear check' boss in the raid encounter I desire to be in while the other I'm smashing my face against nameless NPCs that have nothing to do with the raid encounter I desire to be in. | |} ---- te·di·ous ˈtēdēəs/ adjective adjective: tedious too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous. Attunement is most definitely tedious. /semantics. | |} ---- It takes less than a week to attune with a static group... It took 1-2 months to 'attune' to Sea in OG FFXI:CoP... is less than a week really, honestly tedius if we are being intellectually honest here? I'm the first to admit I love long content, so take my opinion as some one who played real 'tedious' MMO's for 2 decades and enjoyed it... But really? Honestly is less than a week really tedious? that's not even moderatly long in my book.... Do people honestly find a few days worth of content that bad? To each their own, but that still really surprises me. I'm not going to call anyone entitled, because I don't actually think folks are... but it does seem like there is a fundamental disconnect between the OG MMO feel W* was designed after and some of the vocal forum base. | |} ---- Malgrave would be a lot more relaxing if hidden ninja's didn't leap out of the bushes and gank the 1 caravan member that you needed to get gold. Also the caravan member's who go walk about and die because no'one found them in time. Once those 2 get solved it would be super fun Oregon Trail, rather then stressful watch the caravan, make it for 30mins and lose gold to something petty just before the end :( | |} ---- Firstly, agree with the spirit of getting rid of the whole attitude re hardcore/casual, but it's not reality because those two camps regularly argue it. Get them to agree and I'm down with it. They never do though. As for your ideas, love the idea of the soft cap on EG and the ability to purchase gear, but at what time rate are you thinking? Putting my black hat on for a moment here in the spirit of equitable discussion, I'd hate for a situation to occur where people decide simply doing dailies and basic adventures is the 'most efficient' route to gear and I think the people labeling stuff as tedious would agree since that would only make it more tedious. If there's some kind of soft cap, I'd prefer to see the time frame around its gain roughly somewhat less efficient than doing actual group content - it is after all an mmo. I think a bonus of vet dungeons would be better than vet adventures (let's face it, vet adventures are pretty easy once a certain not difficult gear level is reached). I'm all for expediency providing it maintains difficulty. My only beef with these types of discussions is that ideas tend to degenerate into a sum total of 'i want it easier'. I'd prefer your 15-20 min statement have the caveat of 'a good team of players working well together who know the fights' could do it in 15-20 mins and be rewarded for it. I'd hate to see a farming type scenario that detracted from other content. | |} ---- I'm aware of the meaning of the word, but are you honestly telling me that those 13 steps bored you? Or are you just covering for the fact that you wiped alot, had to repeat a lot of content in order to practice and perfect it, and *that* is the reason you found it dull? I'm guessing it's the latter, which again does not make the attunement process of 13 steps that you do once and only once tedious, it makes the fact that people fail at each step a lot tedious. Point being, people need to separate the tedium of failure from the tedium of 13 steps that are in and of themselves pretty easy and pretty fun. I can do semantics too, it's just I'm doing it with logic and you're doing it with a definition that still hasn't answered my original point of - if you really think those 13 steps are tedious, detail them out and explain why. I'm pretty sure for most people it'll be because of failing at steps, not because they 1 shot and just were like 'bleh, that story sucked.'. | |} ---- who need gold these days? | |} ---- I played Ragnarok Online for several years. I know what real "grind" is. I enjoyed every minute of my time playing it. I'm absolutely not against most grinds. And yes, if were being intellectually honest, then attunement is per definition tedious. There's nothing particularly exciting about it except for finally being able to raid at the end. It's just going through the motions. I can't say I would mind going back to some of the older concepts if MMO-dom. Like just grinding out EXP, farming repeatables, or farming that one mob for that exceedingly rare item that it drops that I want. But lets not conflate what WS is versus what old school MMO's are. WS is a modern MMO, while some of the things it does are specifically aiming to be more old school(hello attunement), most of the rest of it is just as themepark and modern as anything else being put on the market. Yes. The attunement process is not necessarily exciting for me. It's dull and monotonous. It's just going through the motions essentially just because. It's one thing to do that with friends or a guild to have some fun, it's entirely different to have to run it because the game says so. But let's continue to make assumptions, shall we? | |} ---- I get told some players do that but I've never met any of them. They either don't exist or have ascended into WildStar godhood. | |} ---- I though a range DPS is suppose to be guarding the caravan ? | |} ---- Does not prevent NPC from jumping from underground on Caravan member and one-shotting it. | |} ----